Volume automation

colorado_57 · Post by **colorado_57** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:50 pm

BTW This is an incredible product.

I am just starting to use a volume envelope in Reaper. I'm not a drummer but I realize drummers don't play at the exact same volume throughout a song. And don't play all drums equally during dynamic changes.

I know there are a million variations, but for a standrd rock song with verse and chorus, just as a starting point what should an envolpe look like.

I can guess the obvious - chorus louder than verse but do drummers typically swell the end of the verse? Does the chorus start strong, diminish a little and then swell to a big end? Do they emphsize the cymbals and keep the kick and snare the same volume?

Again I know there are a million ways, but for a standard top 40 pop/rock song what would a drummer typically do?

Sorry if this seems like drumming 101.

Post by **Ralph @ Rayzoon** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:29 am

Standard Top 40 songs actually have little volume dynamics in the drums. They're pretty much linear and also quite compressed in the mix.

You may want to use the power level in these songs to control the groove. You do this by keeping the DYN knob quite high (about middle or a bit higher) so the volume doesn't drop too much on low power level. Now you can lower the power level in the parts of your song that have 'lower tension', like a breakdown or an intro or a quieter verse.

colorado_57 · Post by **colorado_57** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:51 pm

Interesting. Listening to hit songs with what you said in mind, I can hear what you are saying. It more a trick of the ear with parts dropping in and out and "density" of playing that creates the dynamics more than volume. And not just the drums.

I played around with the DYN like you suggested. That is a nice alternative to dealing with an envelope.

Thanks

t_muraoka · Post by **t_muraoka** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:46 am

Some kind of automation would be nice. I use Jamstix in Ableton for live performance and some of my songs fade out. I can fade out the main audio clips using envelopes but there doesn't seem to be any way to do this with Jamstix. The best I've been able to do is send a LiveLoop trigger to send Jamstix to a silent part but this is quite abrupt and I have to arrange the song with this in mind

I use a foot controller to trigger various events in each song and I could conceivably map one of the expression pedals to the master volume but (1) I only have a limited number of pedals and (2) it's just another thing on top of all the other many things I have going on at the same time. Right now, I just step on a single pedal to trigger an Ableteon scene and let the pre-programmed envelopes take care of the fade out, they just don't work for Jamstix.

Post by **Ralph @ Rayzoon** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:58 am

You can put a MIDI controller on the power knob (right-click) or use VST automation (song power level).

steve b · Post by **steve b** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:32 am

I've only ever been able to use my m-audio keystation pro 88 pedals to control live,but being only 2 pedals and an expression pedal it's limiting when I'm playing guitar.I've never been able to get my Rolls midi buddy to work Jamstix in live(it lights the midi input button in live but nothing happens.I think it's because my Rolls sends midi in 1-127 numbers config,where live receives in ccs.What foot controller are you using in live? Oh for a usb midi foot controller going 1-127 ccs,where I can use that instead of my keyboard when I'm playing guitar bass etc.

t_muraoka · Post by **t_muraoka** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:11 am

steve b wrote:What foot controller are you using in live?

I use a Behringer FCB 1010. I only ever need to trigger scenes or individual clips in Ableton so I program the FCB to send a MIDI NOTE message to do this. The FCB has 2 expression pedals but I solo with a WX5+VL70-m and they're both mapped to that but I imagine there wouldn't be a problem using them in Ableton.

Because I have so much going on at any one time, I need the fade-out to happen automatically. Currently, I can step on one foot controller button to trigger the final scene in my song, whose clips have been programmed to play for (say) 8 bars only, with a fade-out i.e. I step on the pedal and then forget about it, it all happens automatically. I'm going to look into Ralph's suggestion of VST automation next week but I wouldn't be surprised if I can't get Jamstix to fade-out [i:693e1d0e6b]automatically[/i:693e1d0e6b] like this. Maybe inserting an 8-bar MIDI clip into the scene that progressively reduced the volume on Jamstix might work... :shrug: Also not sure if Ralph's suggestion of MIDI-controlling the song power is going to work - I was looking at one of the Jamstix videos last night and it said that dropping the song power right down took everything out except for the hi-hat (IIRC), which is not quite what I want; I need [i:693e1d0e6b]everything[/i:693e1d0e6b] to fade out i.e. same power level, just less volume.

Post by **Ralph @ Rayzoon** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:39 am

t_muraoka wrote:I need [i:5fc1de58ff]everything[/i:5fc1de58ff] to fade out i.e. same power level, just less volume.

How about using Controller 7 (Volume) in the scene on Jamstix.

t_muraoka · Post by **t_muraoka** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:50 am

Ralph [RZ] wrote:
t_muraoka wrote:I need [i:e468c28581]everything[/i:e468c28581] to fade out i.e. same power level, just less volume.
How about using Controller 7 (Volume) in the scene on Jamstix.

Yah, I'll give that a go. Never used VST automation before and am really flat-out busy right now and won't have time to have a play with it until at least next week

Thanks